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New to Pionus (and parrots)

Bylgia

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Hi

First I would like to excuse spelling mistakes...english is not my native language.

I am the proud new owner of two young female bronze-winged pionus parrots.
They were not hand-raised (banned in my country) and are not tame.

I choose pionus parrots as they should be some of the more easy parrots, not loud (someone please tell my budgies, that they are also not supposed to be loud or mimic loud sounds...) and they are middle sized. And - if I'm honest - because I find them beautiful.
Most important is, that they should get a lot older than my cancer prone, short lived budgies. The last female that died, was 9 years old and a daughter of Isley which died previously at almost 14 years. Both were born here and I knew them from the first moment. I'm always heartbroken when they die and I stopped breeding them because of this several years ago.
I asked in rescue centers but there were no pionus (they are rare). The birds from the rescue center were mostly macaws/cockatoos (which are forbidden for me to have due to the current laws) and african greys. I took care of my neighbors' African greys several times during their holidays and I thus I knew I did not want African greys. Otherwise they had some other parrots with aggression issues which I did not feel confident enough to own.

I also own 10 budgies that live in a separate part of the flat to prevent injuries (their cage is only mandatory during the night - otherwise they are wherever they please). My tamest budgie (only here under supervision and of course outside of their cage) does not know what to make of these big suspicious birds. But she has very good nerves and lot of trust, so she is putting up with it....from a safe distance.

The two ladies are still nameless and do not yet know what to think of their know home / living conditions. And if I'm honest I also do not yet know what to make of them, as I do not yet know neither their body language, how pionus "should" behave or what their personalities are.
Right now they are in the cage - but I also bought some playstands. They have daylight lamps, sunlight (but only for 1-2 hours), an air cleaner with hepa filter and the humidity is controlled. I thought I will wait until they are more relaxed to let them out - I think I have time (?) and don't wish to stress them (or me) out more right now. They can fly a little in their cage but of course not as much as when they would be outside their cage (and yes...I have a slightly bad conscience that they can not yet fly more).
Right now my focus is that they get used to the daily routine and to humans being around a lot.

My budgies already pre-trained their human servants and I'm sure the two ladies will be up to the task of finishing the servant-training. :D

May I also ask my first question?
I wanted to prepare as good as possible so I asked a lot of questions to a lot of people... but with the feeding, I'm still unsure.
...of course I have a lot of other questions, but I think food is very important.
I asked several people (breeders, rescue center workers) if I should buy parrot food with sunflower/nuts or without or only pellets...and I got as many different answers as I asked people.
Right now they have 3 possible choices: parrot food without sunflower/nuts - pellets - vegetables/fruits (apples, melone, carrot, pea, salad and so on)
As of now they almost exclusively eat the vegetables and fruits. They treat the pellets as toys and mostly ignore the seeds.
From the breeder they are used to seeds with sunflower/nuts but they also lived outside (with heated shelter...if that is the correct word).
But I thought that with cold outside temperature they needed a lot more energy than they will need at my home (inside a heated room).

What is your advise?
Anything you think I do extremely wrong right now?
 

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Pixiebeak

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Diet has lots of different options as we all strive to do the best for our birds.

The leading suggestions I find here in America , are lost of fresh veggies, sprouts, soaked and cooked legumes and whole grains, leafy greens , lighter on the fruits . Pellets and 10% seed/nuts I also offer a teaspoon of boiled egg once or twice a week.

Complete doing fresh is a little more challenging to meet all nutritional needs of fats, carbs and micronutrients. It can be done but I find it to challenging myself .

There are some studies that show a strict only pellet diet with no fresh and no seeds is lacking. And studies that say pellets only . Some studies showing only pellets and to high artificial vitamins is bad long term So it is confusing. Plus definitely we are lacking individual parrot species and their niche nutritional needs studies. A lot of studies are based of chickens ughh ..some st least studies on Amazon parrots

For their mind and body I definitely feel they need fresh stuff daily. And for my hookbills some seeds.
And to rember breeding season regardless of actively breeding changes nutrition needs. And the big one being molts, there are several studies on molts putting a huge demand on them , requiring double to even more base calories and increase need of protein.
 

tka

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Welcome! Your girls are very beautiful - I love those big baby eyes and dark beaks.

As @Zara said on a different thread, I have two Bronze-winged females. They're full sisters but from different clutches: Leia is seven and Kira is two. Kira would like to be friends but so far Leia is unmoved by Kira's various attempts.

Pionus tend to need some time to watch and observe their new environment before making up their minds about anything, whether that's a new toy or a new human. They will often perch somewhere and just take in their surroundings. They don't like to be rushed. It took Leia nearly a month before she decided that she would step up for me. However, she picked up target training very quickly so I was able to let her out. When it was time to go back in her cage, I'd target her to a perch attached to the cage door, give her a nice treat and swing the door shut. Do not be alarmed or worried if your young ladies seem aloof or uninterested in you at first - they're just figuing things out.

They tend to give plenty of warnings before a bite. If they're not happy about something, they'll let you know. At their most subtle, a "no" might be just a hard stare, leaning away slightly or slightly raised feathers on their heads. If they can trust you to pay attention to their subtle "no"s, they won't feel the need to escalate. HOWEVER all bets are off if you have a hormonal, nesty pionus. Leia is a bit of a floor shark and likes to chase feet. I have to wear thick socks when she's in a mood!

Mine like to know where I am. If they're out of their cages, they like following me from room to room. They also contact call if they can hear but not see me. They are surprisingly loud - easily over 80 dB.

They can try to form a pair-bond with a favoured human. Do not encourage this! Humans cannot offer the devotion, 24/7 company and dedication that a parrot expects of their mate, and this ultimately leads to a frustrated and stressed parrot.


They tend to favour softer materials to play with - balsa, yucca and cardboard are favourites here.

Mine are curious about anything my wife and I are doing. They like to know what's going on, and if I'm holding something, they often indicate that they'd like a closer look - and, if possible, touch it with their tongues to explore the texture.

They're out for around 20-40 minutes in the morning and about three hours in the evening. Some days they just want to chill and watch nature documentaries with me. Other days I use target training to get them flying around the living room. We have four different perching options in the living room - a java tree, a stand, a tabletop stand and a window perch - but naturally they both watch to be on top of the door.

Food-wise, I give them pellets, veg and a little bit of fruit. Sometimes they seem to spend more time crunching the veg and flinging it away, but I have to hope they're at least eating a little it!

Best of luck with your new flock members. Do feel free to ask if you have more questions.
 

aooratrix

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If it were me, I'd continue with the fresh food variety but add natural pellets (not dyed) and sprouted seeds. I give my Amazon that diet, along with a pine nut and a pistachio. On Sundays (arbitrary), I also give her a small almond. Amazons and pionus have similar physiologies; you want to avoid fats in their diets.
 
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Bylgia

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Thank you all very much for your answers!

As I'm very happy with them right now, I tend to write a lot ;).
I'm sure there will also be downs (and not only up's) but that is just the way of life.

@Pixiebeak:
I offer them in 3 different feeders: 1x vegetables, 1x seeds (without nuts/sunflower seeds) and 1x pellets. I do not wish to feed them only "fresh food"...but until now they only eat the fresh food.
I also tried to buy the same seeds the breeder gave...but they still prefer fresh food right now.

They now like the pellets very much...to make a throw-the-pellet-somewhere-that gives-a-sound game out of them :cool:.

@aooratrix
I did not know that there is a difference in pellet food (dyed vs. not dyed). I admit I bought colored ones, as they were the first ones I saw. I can not even tell you, if there where non-dyed pellets. Is the color not food color?

I'm not used to pellets at all, as my budgies only have a seeds and vegetables/fruits diet. They also prefere the fruits/vegetables and eat seeds in between. But they are active all day long and have about 30m^2 of normal space where they have several stands/cages to land on..but sometimes also fly to the other rooms, if no human-entertainers are there to entertain them. I never restricted the food for them.


@tka
Thank you so much for your explanations. So I can take it as normal, that they are a LOT calmer/less active than my budgies. Or maybe that's only because they are still young?
They had this play-thing out of cardboard...now they have the next one, as the first one is already "dead".

They are both very! different in character from what I see. Right now I can say that:
Kaya = the bigger/older? one = very curious, very calm, less coordinated when flying/climbing/taking things with her feet.
Still no name = smaller = very shy, tends to spook fast, flies away from humans or hides behind Kaya, better at coordination.

When I come home from work and sit near the cage to relax, Kaya makes this very soft sounds and will begin to preen herself...and her little sister will hide behind her.
The smaller (still no name) is very, very shy and will fly as far away as possible if I come too near the cage or move ...except if I play the harp...she will "sing" softly along and gets quite and more relaxed.
Otherwise the little one will even step all over Kaya...who bears this with stoic calm...to again hide behind her.

Kaya is a bit of a surprise... she took out some carrots from the feeder yesterday and it fell down (outside of the cage). She then began to look at the carrot (now out of reach) and me and back to the carrot...and back to me. As I know from my budgies - they then expect me to fetch them the thing they want and present it to them (as you can see, I'am well trained :cool:)
So I tried the same for Kaya...and she came happily and took it out of my fingers (to my total surprise). First she got also my finger -> stopped -> and readjusted to just the carrot.

I'm surprised at how fast Kaya learns... like with the cage cleaning. After only 4 days she is no longer spooked by it (even with the cleaning of perches inside the cage), even when her smaller sister is afraid and will fly away she will stay and look.

I'm look foreward to training with them (another reason why I wanted bigger birds). Right now the training for the smaller one is passiv (desensibilisation during cage cleaning). With Kaya I will try to begin with "step-up" on a stick.

I read this with the pair bond and this is not my goal. One of the reasons I got pionus is, because I read that they are parrots that "can do their thing", as I go on with live. Also we all work and can not offer them 24/7 companionship.
I also bought two bird and not one (...besides keeping only one bird would be illegal).
But I do not agree with everything that is there. One of my budiges (female) loves to preen me and gets preened in return.. but has clearly her male/mate and I do not think she sees me as a mate.
It's simply a matter of me beeing better equiped to execute her way of getting preened by humans. Which is more of a massage than preening. The loves head massages ...she then lays down flat - stretches her head to the max. and with increasing "preening" time has almost no muscle tension. She loves ist, when I take her head between the fingers and massage both sides and the top at the same time with 4 fingers - and let her rest her beak on my thumb for stability. The maximum time until she was satisfied and let me stop was around 30 minutes!! I never had a bird that is so extrem in that regard.

One of the people I asked said, that you have to restrict food for your pionus. Is that correct?
Right now I do not do that.
Is there something I should give them additionally as they are still young?
 

Emma&pico

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:hello: Your girls are gorgeous
 

Dartman

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Bylgia

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New - Kaya now find her way inside and out on her own.
Screenshot_20231016_092254_Video Player.jpg
Screenshot_20231016_091907_Video Player.jpg

She also begins to step up on the hand (not only the stick).
Screenshot_20231016_092308_Gallery.jpg

Her sister is as shy as ever.

As they still have problems with windows, I have the curtains there. So the picture quality is ver poor.
 

Emma&pico

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Shezbug

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Such beautiful birds!
 
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