Gas logs, are they safe?

[liltweets]

I hope this is in the right place, if not mods please move it for me.

Just wondering if gas logs are safe to use around birds. Ours isn't vented.
Wanting to prepare for back up heat just in case, for the winter.
I've read conflicting things about propane. Do any of you use non vented gas logs around your birds? I want to make sure before we possibly have to use them.

 

[JLcribber]

Anything that burns without "proper" venting is not only hazardous for birds but yourself as well.

 

[Cynthia & Percy]

he is right

 

[Welshanne]

Yes very dangerous. That is why it is called the silent killer. You could all go to bed and never wake up next morning, simple as that.
Not something you can under estimate, and should always be installed by a professional that knows what they are doing re vents, flu's etc.
My husband was a plumber and they had to go onto courses and pay huge sums to stay legal with our Government re venting flues etc for gas boilers and heaters. He has now retired thank goodness.

 

[Billie Faye]

OK did some checking and this is what I found:


Ventfree Gas Logs
Also referred to as "unvented", "non-vented" or "ventless". This type of log burns with a clean, hot blue flame characteristic of other gas appliances (furnace, range, etc.). The ventfree log is intended for those people who wish to supplement their heating system. These logs are generally not as attractive as vented logs, but produce much more heat. The ventfree gas log is so clean burning that the fireplace may be operated with the damper fully closed, forcing all of the heat out into the room. Blower systems may be used with some ventfree logs, when they have been tested for use with the specific model log set. The use of a blower not approved for a particular log set may disrupt the burner flame pattern and cause sooting.
Ventfree gaslogs are limited to a maximum BTU input of 40,000 BTU. All ventfree gaslogs must have an oxygen depletion sensor (ODS) which shuts the gaslogs off when the oxygen level in the room falls to 18% (normal oxygen level is 21%). Most ventfree installations will require use of a hood over the fireplace opening. This is because with a ventfree logset all of the heat is forced out of the fireplace opening and mantles tend to get very hot unless protected by a hood. Each ventfree gas log manufacturer will state the required clearance from the fireplace opening to the mantle or trim above the fireplace. Even when the minimum recommended clearance is met, the mantle may still get warm and require the installation of a hood. Keep an eye on this if you purchase ventfree gas logs.
Most vent-free appliances are not approved for use in bedrooms or bathrooms. When approved, the BTU rating must be limited to 10,000 BTU’s for bedroom use and 6,000 BTU’s for bathroom use.
Ventfree logs may be installed in existing masonry fireplaces or in special ventfree fireboxes that resemble pre-fab fireplaces without a chimney connection. The use of ventfree gas logs in factory built (pre-fab) fireplaces is hotly debated within the hearth products industry. One manufacturer (Heatilator) has stated that they do not want any ventfree gas logs installed in their fireplaces. (We have a copy of this notice in our office if you would like to review it.) There is also a code change pending that would prohibit ventfree gas logs in all factory built fireplaces unless the fireplace has been specifically tested and approved for the use of ventfree gas logs. This is only a pending change at this time and would not be retroactive to existing installations even when it is added to the code. The issue in a nutshell is this: Factory built fireplaces were designed and tested to operate with the damper in the open position, when ventfree gaslogs are installed and the fireplace is operated with the damper in the closed position the temperatures at the top of the fireplace may exceed safe levels. Heatilator’s testing of their fireplaces has shown that temperatures do exceed the safe levels established by the test standard when the fireplace is operated with the damper closed.
We are often asked about odor problems associated with ventfree gas logs. Odors may be caused by airborne contaminants or chemicals being drawn into the burner and altered by the combustion process. Odors are not a problem as long as the burner has ample fresh, clean air. If you have a ventfree appliance in your home that is causing an odor problem, it is usually the result of chemicals in the home. Many products "offgas" chemicals such as cleaners, deodorizers, newly finished wood, new carpet, etc.
When ventfree gaslogs are operated for the first time they may produce an odor as the logset "cures". This problem will disappear after 4 - 8 hours of operation. The best thing to do is open the fireplace damper or open a window or two.
Another concern with ventfree gaslogs is moisture. A properly operating ventfree appliance will vent only carbon dioxide and water vapor. Carbon dioxide is the same thing humans exhale each time they breathe. The water vapor is generally not a problem during the winter when the humidity level is generally low to begin with. However, if you notice moisture accumulation on the interior of walls or windows you need to ventilate the home. This may occur in homes which are fairly airtight if the appliance is operated for an extended period of time.
Log positioning is another concern with ventfree gaslogs. The logs must be positioned as indicated in the owner’s manual and this arrangement should not be altered. Most ventfree logs have pins or groves to insure that they are installed in the proper position. The flame should not come in contact with or touch the log. If it does it is likely to cause sooting.
Do not operate ventfree gas logs with the fireplace doors closed. If you do the glass doors are likely to overheat and shatter. Also keep in mind the spark screens installed in front of ventfree logs may become very hot while the appliance is operating.
In summary, ventfree gas logs are economical to operate and provide additional warmth in cool areas. They can also provide a backup heat source in emergencies. Please carefully consider the information we have presented here to insure a ventfree appliance is what you want. If you have additional questions, don’t hesitate to ask.

This was taken from:
http://www.magic-sweep.com/gas.htm
Personally, I wouldn't have this in my house...but you do...
Therefore...buy a number of Carbon Monoxide alarms and put in your house....
Can't help you any better than this....​

 

[waterfaller1]

Wow, they sound scary!!

 

[Welshanne]

would hate something not to be right and you find out the hard way that they can be dangerous. Do be so careful.

 

[JLcribber]

Remember the old miners tale. They used to bring a canary with them into the mine because they would drop dead at the first sign of bad air. It was their alarm to run the other way.

 

[liltweets]

There's no way I'll be using it. Sounds way too iffy for my comfort. Sounds risky for humans much less birds.

Billie Faye, thanks for posting that. It's not worth the risk at all.

Thanks everyone.

 

[liltweets]

P.S, it was here when we moved in (when the house was built it was installed). We've been here over a year now and have never used it.

 

[Robin]

I have the same type of gas logs and scared to use them.

 

[CarmieJo]

We have vent free gas logs and have used them with years as a supplement to our heat pump with no problem. I am sure we were using them last winter after we got Howard in Feb. They are the kind that are installed in a "fake fireplace" that will only hold gas logs. FWIW, we have a CO detector in the living room right next to the fireplace and it has never gone off.

 

[Birdasaurus]

Since we are on the subject, what about regular fireplace, whether it's wood burning or gas. Can those be safely used with the damper open, or no?

We don't have one yet, but I would like one when we move into a house.

 

[Billie Faye]

Since we are on the subject, what about regular fireplace, whether it's wood burning or gas. Can those be safely used with the damper open, or no?

We don't have one yet, but I would like one when we move into a house.

You only burn with the damper open or you will have BIG PROBLEMS!LOL
There are some who burn wood in fireplaces or have gas heaters....Personally, I won't use them because of the smoke you get in the house when you have downdrafts in the chimney...I don't like gas at all...but this is me...
The new pellet stoves are different and you might check them out....

 

[CarmieJo]

LOL, Growing up with gas heat was the main reason we built our house with the vent free fireplace. We hate the "not warm" heat from a heat pump and my hubby has asthma so a wood burning fire place was out.

 

[JLcribber]

We have vent free gas logs and have used them with years as a supplement to our heat pump with no problem. I am sure we were using them last winter after we got Howard in Feb. They are the kind that are installed in a "fake fireplace" that will only hold gas logs. FWIW, we have a CO detector in the living room right next to the fireplace and it has never gone off.

If your using it in a regulation gas fireplace it will be well vented with a chimney of some sort.

Closing the damper causes any combustibles to be vented into the room instead of up and out the chimney.

 

[CarmieJo]

If your using it in a regulation gas fireplace it will be well vented with a chimney of some sort.

Closing the damper causes any combustibles to be vented into the room instead of up and out the chimney.

It is a designed to be ventless gas log fireplace. There is no damper or flue. It was built that way and installed by the gas company. It is not one of those that was added to an existing fireplace that was originally designed to be wood burning.

 

[liltweets]

It is a designed to be ventless gas log fireplace. There is no damper or flue. It was built that way and installed by the gas company. It is not one of those that was added to an existing fireplace that was originally designed to be wood burning.

That's how ours is. No damper, no flue.
You explained it a lot better than I did.

What do you the rest of you use for back up heat?

 

[J*M*L]

Great post!