Conures are confusing me, please help :')

[Majora]

I'll try to explain as briefly as I can,

On Friday, 3 days ago, I lifted my bird cage cover to find that 1) An egg was on the bottom of the cage, and 2) we didn't have two males. I was shocked, ecstatic, and anxious. I had wanted two males to avoid this issue as I knew the health complications that can arise from egg laying, but have decided that this will happen no matter what I do as I can't separate them, so I'll just do whatever I can to make sure my pregnant bird will be safe and healthy. That day, we decided to buy a nesting box and some bedding, talking to a worker who had attempted breeding her conures in the past. Ever since then, I have been looking into as much as I can with egg laying. The health issues, how to avoid complications, behaviours, etc. Ocarina, the mother, has not laid another egg even with the nesting box. The egg that was first laid has been destroyed since, but the insides were still there so I'm unsure whether they did it on purpose and just buried it or it was an accident. Either way, it's been 3 days and no eggs since Friday. Here are my questions:

1) I do uni at home and don't work. Like I mentioned above, I would like to go through this clutch and then prevent anything further for the rest of her years. Is it really just better to forget about trying to raise them? Or is there a bit more to that mindset? I was told by almost every comment on Reddit to just forget about it, remove the nesting box, etc. Is this mindset just concern over the parents and babies? I'd like to understand why people are so against it.

2) Ocarina is attached to Majora (the male bird), but Majora isn't too into her. They get along well, but Ocarina has been trying to get him to...ya know with no luck from my observation. However, recently he's been doing the "dance" with her but beside each other. Is it still possible that Ocarina could still have her egg fertilised like that? Kind of like with humans, where people have gotten pregnant through clothes, wounds, etc.

3) Seeing as though one is more attached than the other, is separation easier? Or is that not recommended still? Or, if I can, can I make/get a cage where they can see each other, but can't really come into physical contact?

4) They already get calcium in their water, and are fed vegetables and pellets everyday. Ocarina continues to eat, drink, travel and poop well. She is quite happy, but with everything I can give her, why is she not laying any eggs? I'd kind of hoped she'd pop out another egg by now and hope she'd be done with two haha. And to follow that question up, how do I know when she's about to go into labour again? Would she be nesting?

I'm typing this quite late and I'm tired, so I hope that I've asked everything I want to know. Thank you to anyone who answers, being new to this is scary, especially since they're so small and weak that I worry so much.

 

[Emma&pico]

Hi
@Zara or @BrianB maybe able to help you better

are you sure one is male dna tested ?

 

[Pixiebeak]

Hi
Are the birds related ? If they are siblings then absolutely no letting eggs hatch.

A female can lay without breeding. And sometimes just one . But if she is soliciting breeding, then she might clutch later.

 

[Majora]

Hi
@Zara or @BrianB maybe able to help you better

are you sure one is male dna tested ?

To be fair, Majora hasn't been DNA tested. When we first got him, he was considered a male conure, but the pet store manager (I had volunteered there, so I trusted their husbandry) checked him physically so they warned us that it isn't too accurate. I think I've just always associated him that way. It's hard to say because he has never been sexually hormonal until now. He's been grumpy, but never tried to mate or anything when it was just him, and I used to pat him on his back which I've learnt now isn't good. Now that Ocarina has popped out an egg, he did take care of it and rolled it to keep it well. With the box, he's worked hard to prepare it for Ocarina to nest. They could very well be in some sort of lesbian situation, but as mentioned above he's never shown interest in her that way. Always ran away when she made advances. This is one of the reasons why I'm confused as you can see haha

 

[Majora]

Hi
Are the birds related ? If they are siblings then absolutely no letting eggs hatch.

A female can lay without breeding. And sometimes just one . But if she is soliciting breeding, then she might clutch later.

Oh yeah, they're absolutely not related. Majora is 5, Ocarina is 2. Very different families and from different places haha.

I had started assuming that it was an infertile egg, but Majora was trying to take care of it funny enough. Because of that, I'm unsure if Ocarina left it because she knew it was infertile, or didn't care. But Majora has been a great "dad", even if they aren't fertile but he isn't obsessed just to mention, just checked on the egg occasionally and worked hard on the nest for Ocarina.

 

[Pixiebeak]

Often there is a learn curve with pairs.

 

[Zara]

Hello, Welcome,

For the birds sexes, I can't help, you would need a DNA test for Majora.

So, this clutch, it has been three days with no egg meaning the clutch is complete. Laying one or two eggs in a first clutch is not uncommon. As is not brooding the first clutch of eggs. It is very new for the birds.

I was told by almost every comment on Reddit to just forget about it, remove the nesting box, etc. Is this mindset just concern over the parents and babies? I'd like to understand why people are so against it.

I'm not a Reddit user, but I read all threads here on AA, and we see so many people coming here seeking help because they have allowed breeding and then they run into awful circumstances and chick suffering that could have all been avoided had they just removed eggs. It can sound harsh, but with no experience or no mentor, "giving breeding a try" is not a good idea. Things can go wrong fast, parent birds can pass away, chicks can be killed or tortured, or they can die to preventable things. I have read so many threads in which ultimately the chick dies and I feel awful knowing that if that chick was in my home I could save them. When we read these types of threads, we are filled with sadness, and when parent birds pass away we really do mourn that loss with that person because it is very sad.
Often people want to try allowing their birds to brood the first eggs, but this is when the birds are the most likely to fail at breeding.
Finally, while your birds are of good breeding age, other people have birds that are too young to be allowed to breed.
So while it seems harsh, they are just looking out for your birds health, and your own wellness.
I hope I explained that well.

Is it still possible that Ocarina could still have her egg fertilised like that?

No. Without the birds mating, there is no way the egg can be fertilised.

Seeing as though one is more attached than the other, is separation easier? Or is that not recommended still? Or, if I can, can I make/get a cage where they can see each other, but can't really come into physical contact?

If they are happyy together, leave them together. If they are fighting, separate.
You don't need to separate to avoid breeding. You can just remove eggs/boil eggs/switch for dummy eggs.
The main thng with housing is to be sure they are happy sharing.

why is she not laying any eggs?

I already adressed this one above, but it seems the clutch is complete. One is not uncommon in first clutches so don't worry about lack of eggs. She could be perfectly healthy and only lay one. I don't know what it is that determines the number of eggs in a first clutch.

how do I know when she's about to go into labour again? Would she be nesting?

When a bird is getting ready to produce eggs, they will usually start trying to buil a nest (exact details vary species to species). When the egg is being created, in the last 24 hours you will see the bump of the egg in the lower front of the bird.
Eggs are laid at 48 hour intervals.

@Matto and @Mockinbirdiva are good people to converse with as they are experienced in conure breeding.

 

[Zara]

you will see the bump of the egg in the lower front of the bird.

* behind the legs near the cloaca. Near the birds "bum". Under the tail.

 

[Majora]

@Zara Thank you for your answers. Everything is making a lot of sense now .

Firstly, I'll just mention that Ocarina had an egg this morning, 4 days after the original one. I've seen some places online say that some conures just don't lay eggs in the same intervals as your average conure so I assume she's just a late egg-layer, or that she gave up trying to fertilise it haha. I've made sure that she's ok, she's been eating and drinking still, and still like herself for the most part.

I understand the major concern that you and many experienced bird owners have towards newer owners and caring properly for their birds. I can say that I'm the exact same way, and get really upset when a bird owner does something so unavoidable if they had just looked it up online or spoken to an avian vet. I'm the type of owner who researches everything about an animal before getting one, but because of my intentions of not having a female with my male bird, I will admit that I haven't looked into the breeding and egg laying area of bird owning. I can try finding fake eggs, but even the worker I was talking to that tried that solution when her birds were breeding excessively said that in Australia, it's difficult to find fake conure eggs. I haven't looked yet so I'm not sure, but that's at least what I've heard for now. Can you use clay as an alternative or can that be toxic for them? Is there a way to know that your birds will actually care for their children? Or can they be attentive and caring for their eggs one minute, then when the eggs hatch they can suddenly ignore their baby? And in the case that she hypothetically lays a single fertile egg and hatches it, you still wouldn't recommend allowing it to happen? Before asking on here my plan was to see how many eggs we'd get in this clutch, but if it comes out to be more than I'm comfortable helping her raise, I'd swap them with fake ones/boil them. I'm sorry for the stories you have to read on here about the loss of other birds, it must be hard seeing that stuff all the time .

I've never personally seen them mate, and haven't heard them doing anything together in the nesting box, so I assume they're unfertilised? It's hard to tell with Majora, as he preens her and sleeps together with her, but then seems like he runs away from her sometimes and gets angry when she comes close haha. Not in an aggressive, fighting way, but he'll get upset at her a bit. Majora does like(?) Ocarina, but I don't think they have an equal view of each other. I personally think that Majora would like to sometimes be away from Ocarina, but Ocarina won't like it.

Again, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I always end up with animals that have weird quirks, so simple Google searches sometimes just aren't enough haha :'). Like I said, I'll look into fake eggs for them

 

[Zara]

Can you use clay as an alternative or can that be toxic for them?

I think boiling the original egg and allowing to cool is a better solution to clay if you can't get any dummy eggs.

Is there a way to know that your birds will actually care for their children?

Professional breeders have pairs they work with for years, rest, allow strict number of clutches and monitor constantly. So they would have a very good idea of who are good parents.
As for anyone else, me and you, there's no way to tell.

Or can they be attentive and caring for their eggs one minute, then when the eggs hatch they can suddenly ignore their baby?

Yes.
Or it could be something like, they brood and stop days before the eggs hatch while the chick is almost fully developed.
Or the chicks hatch, and one/both parent(s) kill the chicks.
Or they care for the chicks but pluck their feathers out.
Or they brood the chicks after hatching but don't feed one/some/all (that one happened to me, the parents stopped feeding just one of the 4 chicks).
Or they care for them for a little while and then a week or two weeks or three weeks later, suddenly stop.
Or they care for the chicks for weeks then kill them.
Or care for them for weeks and then suddently pluck them, bite them, attack them.
There is long list of unfortunate possibilities, and these are just chick related. There's also cases when parents turn on each other or kill each other or drop dead.

These scenarios are not common, though they are not really uncommon either so it is important to step into breeding birds with eyes wide open. The things listed above, you can't do anything to stop them happening except step in if they do to save the birds. Having health checks, feeding a well balanced diet and having birds of suitable breeding age can help in successful breeding.

And in the case that she hypothetically lays a single fertile egg and hatches it, you still wouldn't recommend allowing it to happen?

If a hen lays one single egg, and it is fertilised, and the person with the birds knows how to care for neonate birds and how to handfeed, there's no reason to destroy it if the breeding was wanted.

so I assume they're unfertilised?

It is likely. Though your birds could mate when you are not around.
I treat all my eggs as if they are fertile, whether I know it or not. I like to remove eggs within a 3 day max period.

I personally think that Majora would like to sometimes be away from Ocarina, but Ocarina won't like it.

Maybe open a thread on the Conure forum and share a little about them and what they are like together and apart and see what other conure people think. There are others with pairs and multiple conures who will hopefully have good insight

 

[Majora]

@Zara thank you! I've gotten more info here than anywhere else haha. I'm home basically everyday due to online university, so I think I'll see if I can contact an avian vet (parents are weird about me wanting check ups on my birds, so they've never taken me to one) so I can learn what I need to know to care for a baby in the chance that it is fertile and the parents aren't into it. I'll always be in the same room as them, as they're in my bedroom. I think I'll only allow one, but it seems like Ocarina is only having one egg anyway as she's nesting on it right now. If the vet doesn't even think it's a good idea, I'll go with plan B which is boiling the egg. I am willing to learn to help this baby survive. I'll go on that forum and ask around about them Have a good day!

 

[Zara]

I'll see if I can contact an avian vet (parents are weird about me wanting check ups on my birds, so they've never taken me to one)

Be sure that you have the funds, and are able to be independent enough to take your birds to the vet (transport, be it taxi, car etc). Having an emergency vet is also very helpful.