ATTACKING QUAKER

[Papiiiiii]

Hello there it’s been a while but I’ve come into a serious issue
About 4 years ago I got Papi who has been the most perfect boy everrrrrr & the reason I found this forum , about 2 years ago I got Luna (albino Quaker) from a petsmart
I would say she’s improved tremendously
She’s learned to fly and walk properly as she could only walk backwards and from side to side

Lately (as in two days ago) she has attacked me three times , the first time I was bonding with her by preening her and after a while i had her on my knee just hanging out and she suddenly flew towards my face and bit me - enough to now have left me a scar on my face
And she’s flown towards me a few more times since then
I’m scared of her now embarrassing to admit and I’m not understanding why the sudden change to attack me but no one else in the family

Please advice

 

[April]

Oh goodness I'm sorry your going through that. It's many parrots hormonal times right now and especially Quakers can be prone to Hotheadedness right now. Let me tag some folks for you. @Mizzely @Pixiebeak

 

[Mizzely]

My quaker used to do the same thing to me.

I would probably try to clip him if I was to do it all over again. I am usually very pro-flight but its really a safety issue for both of you if they are fully flighted and attacking.

Hormones are definitely part of it. This may be a worthwhile read for you. Site Name - Articles - Behavioral - Sex And The Psittacine

 

[Papiiiiii]

Oh goodness I'm sorry your going through that. It's many parrots hormonal times right now and especially Quakers can be prone to Hotheadedness right now. Let me tag some folks for you. @Mizzely @Pixiebeak

I’m shook because my mom has no issues kissing her and having her next to her , she looks at me and it triggers her now - and I always felt like I bonded with her the most so much hostility

 

[Papiiiiii]

My quaker used to do the same thing to me.

I would probably try to clip him if I was to do it all over again. I am usually very pro-flight but its really a safety issue for both of you if they are fully flighted and attacking.

Hormones are definitely part of it. This may be a worthwhile read for you. Site Name - Articles - Behavioral - Sex And The Psittacine

Thanks for the article I’ll look into it now ! She flies towards me and is determined to attack - she has latched on to my hair and shirt to make sure she gets a bite in at this point

 

[Mizzely]

Yes I once had to hide under a dining room table to stop getting bit.

 

[Pixiebeak]

Behaviors can have complex triggers and id like to hear more to help you figure this out .
Unfortunately it gets more complex after a bite , as their can be misunderstanding and negative feedback and confusion and trust issues and unintentionally negative feedback loops . They read our fear and uncertainty, ( which hey is totally understandable after a bite to face ,) and thst can make them feel unsecure..

But I feel you can get back on track ! I have certainly had lots of hiccups!!! And we recovered from them ! Sometimes it's a quick recovery, sometimes it takes a little longer .

Yes it is certainly a hormonal time , I have a female sitting on eggs ! I'm sure that is a factor in some way . Tho sitting on your knee and a sudden attack , I think more was involved.

During your preen session, you only did head and neck correct? No touching back, chest or other places? When she was on your knee, did another bird, person , or pet come into the room or move towards you ? Was there a noise or disturbance? What was your response to the bite ? What did you do ? It's understandable if you protected yourself and made noise and there was confusion and fear. But I want to hear, so I can better help.

While that's an ouch bite, and a scary place to get a bite . What you showed is not a full force , full use of beak bite . It's more of a correction, a light nip. And she used much restraint. I have received these correction type bites, as well as the full on anger/fear/defense bites . The later rip out chunks , feet are often involved and they are ripping tearing going for maximum damage.

It's more challenging to help and understand behavior from afar and not in person. But I'm definitely here to give my best effort to help you get it sorted . And to reassure you this isn't the end of the world , it isn't all or nothing, just a hiccup, and I fully believe you will get back to a happy trusting none attack place we just got work it out, negotiate.

I would not clip her wings at this time . Clipping doesn't address the problem and leads to more behavior issues. Ot course their can be times clipping is used for a person safety, especially with even larger beaks and in different situations. But I'd really like to help you before that extreme measures.

 

[Papiiiiii]

Of course ! && thank you so much for the help
Let me get into more detail

Background : I got her at 1 year of age at a Petco - once home we realized she was unwell so began a long process , of course I’m no expert - but Luna has learned to fly , to walk properly (as she could only walk backwards and diagonally) she hung upside down almost all day and screeched at the sight of anyone and anything
She was so timid but quite a nipper ! Never enough damage but she doesn’t distinguish her beaks strength as my other Quaker parrot (MALE) who corrects me and is vocal but has never hurt me

she now stands on my finger or shoulder but she has always randomly nipped no whatever what she is doing , but she will remove herself afterwards , again nothing hard

This particular day I had my MALE on my shoulder and I had my knee up with her on top to keep distance because she’ll randomly bite
I only preen the back of their neck and she falls almost asleep from me doing so every time
This time I’m not sure if my male flew off and I stopped preening her but I cal almost say I made eye contact with her because I saw when she got upset and flew towards me
I think I just moved my face thinking she would fly above me or around and I realized she stayed flapping her wings to make sure she got a bite in
I bled a bit and was taken a back

moving forward she later got on the couch and was with my other bird I didn’t understand what I did and told my mother how I was shocked she did that and again I looked at her and she flew towards me
At this point I turned my back and she grabbed on to the back of my shirt and I eventually ran off thinking she’d bite my back and she flew off

YESTERDAY, again I figured I tried again
I was laying on the carpet as my two tan and hopped around , I want to say I kissed my MALE Quaker and he flew off and she stared at me so I made a kissing sound and she lunged at me again

mind you my mother had been with her that whole time and she’s a cuddler in the sense she’ll run and sit right next to your arm or shoulder or wherever you're at

i don’t mind the bites but she’s goingstraight to my face so I’m wondering if this is something temporary or something that can be fixed

 

[Papiiiiii]

Behaviors can have complex triggers and id like to hear more to help you figure this out .
Unfortunately it gets more complex after a bite , as their can be misunderstanding and negative feedback and confusion and trust issues and unintentionally negative feedback loops . They read our fear and uncertainty, ( which hey is totally understandable after a bite to face ,) and thst can make them feel unsecure..

But I feel you can get back on track ! I have certainly had lots of hiccups!!! And we recovered from them ! Sometimes it's a quick recovery, sometimes it takes a little longer .

Yes it is certainly a hormonal time , I have a female sitting on eggs ! I'm sure that is a factor in some way . Tho sitting on your knee and a sudden attack , I think more was involved.

During your preen session, you only did head and neck correct? No touching back, chest or other places? When she was on your knee, did another bird, person , or pet come into the room or move towards you ? Was there a noise or disturbance? What was your response to the bite ? What did you do ? It's understandable if you protected yourself and made noise and there was confusion and fear. But I want to hear, so I can better help.

While that's an ouch bite, and a scary place to get a bite . What you showed is not a full force , full use of beak bite . It's more of a correction, a light nip. And she used much restraint. I have received these correction type bites, as well as the full on anger/fear/defense bites . The later rip out chunks , feet are often involved and they are ripping tearing going for maximum damage.

It's more challenging to help and understand behavior from afar and not in person. But I'm definitely here to give my best effort to help you get it sorted . And to reassure you this isn't the end of the world , it isn't all or nothing, just a hiccup, and I fully believe you will get back to a happy trusting none attack place we just got work it out, negotiate.

I would not clip her wings at this time . Clipping doesn't address the problem and leads to more behavior issues. Ot course their can be times clipping is used for a person safety, especially with even larger beaks and in different situations. But I'd really like to help you before that extreme measures.

&& no I don’t have the heart to trim her feathers , she took so long to learn to fly - she still struggles at times but Iam curious to know why me ? I’ve felt we’ve had the best bond
Maybe she doesn’t like to see my other bird there ? But she loves him and doesn’t do it to anyone else

 

[Pixiebeak]

How is her relationship with the male quaker otherwise?

Thanks for taking her in, and making such progress and improvements with her life . Such a pretty girl !!

Tho naughty if she has been beak bully you for awhile. They will try and beak bully which is different than your attack , but probably plays a little roll. I'm in constant well periodically negotiations that beak bully is not allowed. For mine it's like testing, testing, no? Ok just seeing what I can get away with. Very responsive to no, not allowed. They live in huge flock and if you watch wild flock videos, constantly having fun with each other in minor squabble, like constantly punk each other.

I think this first attack falls under resource guarding ( you are the resource) either as her person, her mate , jealous, or not into sharing the attention. Parrots can try to drive their mate away from others by attacking their mate, or attacking their rivals, or they can bite to her you to move away from danger like the dogs or other perceived threats. I'm not sure exactly how looking at plays in .

I would send aside a time every day ( try to make a routine with time of day this happens) that's just for you and her , the other birds and animals put up and no distractions. Work on repair your relationship and building trust and just giving her postive attention, love , sweet talk , treats , little very easy breif training, and sone just hanging out with you but not direct attention like with a foraging item or longer to eat veg items doing your own thing but check in here and there with hi and praise.

Then a time with both birds , like on the couch on either side of you but not on you . Hand out treats to in then the other. Have one step up hi aren't you the best bird ? Abd set them down and do the same with the other. Or like a flock feed , eat and share a salad with both or something, maybe share apple slices you , and them handing out. Also if you have a large out of perch hang out area , ( definitely recommend) do some very breif training together. Have one step up ysy how great here is your treat and back to perch then same with the other . So they are seeing they get treated the same ,model good behavior to each other , and as an a activity to do together. Y very breif I mean like 3 reps of that , maybe 3 reps of taking one fir a walk around the room then back to perch then doing with the other

I'm getting over pneumonia, so not going to write more just now . Need a break . Plus if I use we have many members with experience and ideas that will hopefully weigh in. Be back later to keep taking with you.

 

[Mizzely]

I would like to apologize for making it sound like clipping should be the only option or the first option. It was from a place of being attacked for years by a Quaker and having to re-home him in part because of it. I wish I had tried clipping. There are lots of other options to work with. Unfortunately nothing worked for me, but that doesn't mean they won't work for someone else. I do not have any additional advice as clearly I am not the right person to provide it. I wish you luck!

 

[Pixiebeak]

&& no I don’t have the heart to trim her feathers , she took so long to learn to fly - she still struggles at times but Iam curious to know why me ? I’ve felt we’ve had the best bond
Maybe she doesn’t like to see my other bird there ? But she loves him and doesn’t do it to anyone else

Oh so glad to hear ! Especially as she is just getting the hang of flying!!
Parrots have a very complex social structures more on par with humans social structures than any other creatures in the world I think. They are individuals making individual choices , do not have a true dominant hierarchy. Sometimes we get a little jealous seeing our friends getting attention from our other friends. Plus birds do come with some hard wired behavior and triggers. Whish I could know what's going on in their minds! But even if we don't know exactly, we can figure out some patterns and adjust and make better patterns and habits that improve our lives together as complex social individuals

I find keeping a positive attitude, and humorous and fluidity is so important. They read our energy .

Some examples of my and others bird areas and fun stuff

Bird Room?

@Pixiebeak show us your amazing room I have before? I'm not sure it's amazing ;)

forums.avianavenue.com

 

[Pixiebeak]

I would like to apologize for making it sound like clipping should be the only option or the first option. It was from a place of being attacked for years by a Quaker and having to re-home him in part because of it. I wish I had tried clipping. There are lots of other options to work with. Unfortunately nothing worked for me, but that doesn't mean they won't work for someone else. I do not have any additional advice as clearly I am not the right person to provide it. I wish you luck!

I think you have lots of great experiences and advice! I hope you keep participating. Every situation and every parrot is different. Different insights are so important

 

[Papiiiiii]

How is her relationship with the male quaker otherwise?

Thanks for taking her in, and making such progress and improvements with her life . Such a pretty girl !!

Tho naughty if she has been beak bully you for awhile. They will try and beak bully which is different than your attack , but probably plays a little roll. I'm in constant well periodically negotiations that beak bully is not allowed. For mine it's like testing, testing, no? Ok just seeing what I can get away with. Very responsive to no, not allowed. They live in huge flock and if you watch wild flock videos, constantly having fun with each other in minor squabble, like constantly punk each other.

I think this first attack falls under resource guarding ( you are the resource) either as her person, her mate , jealous, or not into sharing the attention. Parrots can try to drive their mate away from others by attacking their mate, or attacking their rivals, or they can bite to her you to move away from danger like the dogs or other perceived threats. I'm not sure exactly how looking at plays in .

I would send aside a time every day ( try to make a routine with time of day this happens) that's just for you and her , the other birds and animals put up and no distractions. Work on repair your relationship and building trust and just giving her postive attention, love , sweet talk , treats , little very easy breif training, and sone just hanging out with you but not direct attention like with a foraging item or longer to eat veg items doing your own thing but check in here and there with hi and praise.

Then a time with both birds , like on the couch on either side of you but not on you . Hand out treats to in then the other. Have one step up hi aren't you the best bird ? Abd set them down and do the same with the other. Or like a flock feed , eat and share a salad with both or something, maybe share apple slices you , and them handing out. Also if you have a large out of perch hang out area , ( definitely recommend) do some very breif training together. Have one step up ysy how great here is your treat and back to perch then same with the other . So they are seeing they get treated the same ,model good behavior to each other , and as an a activity to do together. Y very breif I mean like 3 reps of that , maybe 3 reps of taking one fir a walk around the room then back to perch then doing with the other

I'm getting over pneumonia, so not going to write more just now . Need a break . Plus if I use we have many members with experience and ideas that will hopefully weigh in. Be back later to keep taking with you.

Thank you so much for the tips !!!!
I was always able to hang out with both idk why she chose violence but I’ll def try the one on ones again although I’m a bit scared

Luna loves Papi but he never showed interest in her and doesn’t like her around
He just walks away or flies off
She’s very attached so she want to be sitting right next to someone or something
Even her toys , she’ll get right next to it “somewhat cuddling”

hope you feel better and again thank you so much for all the tips !

 

[Papiiiiii]

I would like to apologize for making it sound like clipping should be the only option or the first option. It was from a place of being attacked for years by a Quaker and having to re-home him in part because of it. I wish I had tried clipping. There are lots of other options to work with. Unfortunately nothing worked for me, but that doesn't mean they won't work for someone else. I do not have any additional advice as clearly I am not the right person to provide it. I wish you luck!

no, I appreciate your advice !!!! And would end up doing so as long as I don’t have to rehome her tbh
What I have to my advantage that there’s more people in the home who she doesn’t attack as far as me ima need to start over again with her

 

[Papiiiiii]

Oh so glad to hear ! Especially as she is just getting the hang of flying!!
Parrots have a very complex social structures more on par with humans social structures than any other creatures in the world I think. They are individuals making individual choices , do not have a true dominant hierarchy. Sometimes we get a little jealous seeing our friends getting attention from our other friends. Plus birds do come with some hard wired behavior and triggers. Whish I could know what's going on in their minds! But even if we don't know exactly, we can figure out some patterns and adjust and make better patterns and habits that improve our lives together as complex social individuals

I find keeping a positive attitude, and humorous and fluidity is so important. They read our energy .

Some examples of my and others bird areas and fun stuff

Bird Room?

@Pixiebeak show us your amazing room I have before? I'm not sure it's amazing ;)

forums.avianavenue.com

i Can def see the trauma in her , she didn’t even talk when we got her
She now caught on to everything papi knows and randomly blurs it out

papi we’ve had as baby and he’s such a small genius if he tells you to shut up he means it

 

[Shezbug]

I have actually stopped helping my macaw preen his head feathers as I have learned that it is most definitely a trigger for him to decide to hunt me down for blood donations, I have found too much physical contact (even though I never touch the off limits areas!) now unfortunately seems to give him the wrong idea about our relationship as he matures.

My latest incident of comforting him (allowing him to tuck his head under my arm and snuggling/pushing his body into me) and checking him over after he had a fright and a big crash causing a broken beak tip caused what I believe was some confusion or maybe frustration for him so I am currently sporting a fractured bone in my hand for trying to stop him running back up my arm.

Nearly every time this happens (mood/behaviour change) I just play it safe and do not try to interact with him unless he is behaving and working with my requests and if he is displaying or trying to bite me while I try to open the cage then he simply does not come out- he can be as hormonal as he likes but he is learning he is not allowed to take it out on me or be on me when he is rude and bad mannered and he will not be let out of the cage when he is trying to attack me for opening it.

Takes time but I am getting there and his anger at me while acting out is toning down some thankfully.

I also chose not to clip (I honestly believe I would rehome him before I ever considered clipping him) as I do believe it will only make him angrier and harder to deal with plus I personally struggle to look at clipped birds without feeling some awful things so I do not think I would cope with the guilt of removing his right to fly.

 

[Emma&pico]

I honestly feel for you it’s horrible being bitten constantly attacked for no reason I get the protectiveness of cages that there area etc but when they are out and they fly at you just to bite you that’s a different story @Mizzely honestly that’s horrible you had to hide under a table don’t say sorry for your view I don’t like clipping wings but also think if it’s for safety of you and bird or other birds you own then I think that’s something someone as to weigh up I honestly don’t think in that situation there’s a right or wrong answer just the same as rehoming a bird who is aggressive is down to how much someone is willing to take how much you have tried etc it’s us that as to put up with this behaviour daily not strangers on here as much as we as a group appreciate each others advice at the end of day we all have to do that’s right for us our family and our home

 

[Emma&pico]

I have actually stopped helping my macaw preen his head feathers as I have learned that it is most definitely a trigger for him to decide to hunt me down for blood donations, I have found too much physical contact (even though I never touch the off limits areas!) now unfortunately seems to give him the wrong idea about our relationship as he matures.

My latest incident of comforting him (allowing him to tuck his head under my arm and snuggling/pushing his body into me) and checking him over after he had a fright and a big crash causing a broken beak tip caused what I believe was some confusion or maybe frustration for him so I am currently sporting a fractured bone in my hand for trying to stop him running back up my arm.

Nearly every time this happens (mood/behaviour change) I just play it safe and do not try to interact with him unless he is behaving and working with my requests and if he is displaying or trying to bite me while I try to open the cage then he simply does not come out- he can be as hormonal as he likes but he is learning he is not allowed to take it out on me or be on me when he is rude and bad mannered and he will not be let out of the cage when he is trying to attack me for opening it.

Takes time but I am getting there and his anger at me while acting out is toning down some thankfully.

I also chose not to clip (I honestly believe I would rehome him before I ever considered clipping him) as I do believe it will only make him angrier and harder to deal with plus I personally struggle to look at clipped birds without feeling some awful things so I do not think I would cope with the guilt of removing his right to fly.

I hope your hand gets better soon shez big hugs

 

[Pixiebeak]

Thank you so much for the tips !!!!
I was always able to hang out with both idk why she chose violence but I’ll def try the one on ones again although I’m a bit scared

Luna loves Papi but he never showed interest in her and doesn’t like her around
He just walks away or flies off
She’s very attached so she want to be sitting right next to someone or something
Even her toys , she’ll get right next to it “somewhat cuddling”

hope you feel better and again thank you so much for all the tips !

Quakers are an incredible social parrot , I have read that they will babysit unrelated offspring tho usually done by older siblings, they live communal like in condos in one big nest , and there are reports that if a pair nearby looses a partner they assist the solo parent raise the young. They are a fascinating species . But really no parrot likes to be alone .

While your two my always remain more distant friends , over time they can still develop a deeper friendship. Pikachu worked hard for 2 years to be friend my older quaker female who really didn't know how to be a bird , and become very close. Pikachu and Phoebe took near to 3 years to become bonded , deeply bonded and now live together .

I understand being fearful, I hope it is something you can overcome. Starting at first with more structured interactions will hopefully help. I like doing multiple short interactions at first . Trying to set up the interaction for success and avoiding known triggers , and limiting distractions , as well as other pets and people. You can work back to more inclusive later

And if looking at her is a trigger, working in desensitizing this. How I might do this , is get her out , chat a bit , then place her on a perch , walk a short distance away , look at her tell her she is a good bird , walk back over and give treats . Repeat this many times randomly through out the day , only once or twice at time and placing her in different spots for the next time , on thr couch on a chair and so thst looking at becoming linked with good bird and treats. And leaving her longer in spots before looking at her and doing this. Shaping behavior, going in baby steps , repetition and building off that is very effective with animals , parrots , critters .

My old sweetest rescue Penny, would get quite angry if she had to be caged longer due to me being away or life circumstances that has for ed me to leave her caged instead of her normal routine of being out. What she would do when I finally was able to let her out ,is launch screaming at my head or face to bite me. Because she wasn' t the best flier I could mostly avoid, and when I learned this is how she would likely act at first letting out I adapted. I talked longer with her before letting her out, and when I opened the door I walked away and turned my back . So the initial bombardment would be to the back of my head . After letting me know how displeased she was , moments later she was my cuddle sweetheart again. Tho occasionally she would also like to land on my shoulder and beak punch or beak slap my face. Then like at me and in my mind , let me know that was fir my own good now we can be friends again. Penny was the gentlest sweetest sweetheart parrot the rest of the time. In our situation this only happened after she had been left caged all day or for several days in a row. I never was able to eliminate the initial winged bombardment, but did lessen it to a screeching flyby ( 90% of the time ) by really talking to her and apologizing about being locked up for so long before letting her out, and by ore setting up yummy favorite foods in top of cage before letting her out, and being sure she was the one I let out first and gave attention to first . I just an a person who doesn't take all this drama to heart . I don't think I have ever shared this quirk of hers here before even .

My green cheek conure Ta-dah, will often come out of her cage in high energy high mental state , and interacting with her after just letting her out will definitely lead to bites and attacks. So for her also , I talk with her fir a few moments before letting her out. She marches around jabbering in her cage , I listen and agree. When that's calmed down a little, I open the doors and let her out. The climbs to the top of cage and displays and matches around mumble and I spend time talking to her till she calms down . Then because it's normally first thing in the morning I set out he vegg. On my later fo I go and get her to step up and have our morning hellos .

Think about, and find routine and ritual to help you two navigate situations that might lead to high arousal and bites. Doing your best to seet yourselves up for success